Are your sales reps stuck chasing "pipe dreams" while the real deals slip through the cracks? In our latest episode of In The Funnel, we are launching a brand-new format: ITF Office Hours. Joining me is special guest Dave Hanley—author of The Delusional Founder and a veteran who has exited three technology companies at eight-figure valuations.
In this session, we tackle the toughest questions from our listeners, moving beyond generic advice to provide real-world, tactical solutions. Whether you’re a sales manager struggling to identify which deals are actually real, a rep trying to sell up the ladder at a major account, or a leader dealing with a disruptive "star" performer who undermines your culture, this episode is packed with actionable insights. We’re pulling back the curtain on how to build trust, collaborate effectively, and stop forcing square pegs into round holes. Dive in to hear how you can elevate your sales process and start closing with confidence.
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ITF Office Hours Podcast - Episode 1
Introducing The New "ITF Office Hours" Format
First of all, we have got a new format. I am really excited to introduce this new show we are going to be doing. We are going to intermingle these in between our normal selling well episodes. We will do it at least once a week. We are going to do what we are now calling the ITF office hours. This was not my idea. This was the idea of Dave Hanley.
Those of you who are friends of the show, you probably know Dave for a couple of reasons. First of all, Dave wrote a fantastic book called The Delusional Founder. In his context for writing the book, Dave is a very rare breed. Dave has actually started, founded, been the first salesperson, and then exited three different technology companies, and they all exited very well at eight figures.
One of the things I have found in my experience with founders, it is very rare for somebody to do well twice. To do well three times is extremely surprising. Although Dave is really humble, I do not want to embarrass him. He is Canadian. What are you going to do? This was Dave's idea. First of all, Dave, welcome to the show.
Thanks, Mark. Excited to explore this format and talk about some sales issues that some of our audience here have sent in. I know working with you for, I mean, how long has it been now, fifteen plus years.
Can you believe it?
Yes, it is crazy. Time flies when you are having fun selling. Some of the biggest insights I got when we are sitting in a boardroom, just riffing on questions, problems with deals, that type of thing, is when some of the biggest light bulbs go off. Hopefully, we can do that for the audiences here, talking about questions that have been sent in to us by clients and listeners, and just work through those.
It sounds great, David. By the way, team, thanks for doing that. As you guys know, at the end of every show, I put my email in the show, saying, "Please give us feedback in terms of how we can make the show better." First of all, we do get some great constructive criticism. Thank you, by the way. We love constructive criticism. The second thing is that we get some questions that get tagged onto it. These days, we are getting a lot of questions from LinkedIn as well. Keep them coming. Please ask the questions, but Dave, where do you want to take it from here? Do you want to go into the mailbag or the email bag?
Absolutely. As you said, Mark, if anybody has got some questions for maybe future episodes, you can reach Mark by email, LinkedIn, wherever, send in a letter if you want via the postal service, we will take them all. Let us start with question number one, Mark. This one actually is from Joe, and Joe asks, "I am a sales manager of a team with six sales reps. Some of my salespeople are crushing it, while others on the team are underperforming. Your underperforming reps, they always seem to have deals in the pipeline that just seem to get stuck or do not seem real. How do I do a better job helping figure out what's real and what is a pipe dream?" Love that little one at the end there, pipe dream, what is in the pipeline? I like it.
Basic Deal Qualification And Identifying Real Opportunities
There is a nice play on words there. A couple of thoughts. First of all, I think we do need salespeople who are eternally optimistic. One of the things when you are hiring salespeople, one of the attributes you are looking for is optimism. When they are working deals, they have to have this belief that the deal is going to come to fruition. You cannot have a pessimist in B2B sales. They are never successful over multiple years. First of all, we have to appreciate that we have a salesperson who has a belief in their deals.
The second concept, maybe I would think about, and Dave, you have all got great experience here too, is that sometimes it is hard to read the label on the bottle when you are inside the bottle. When somebody is in the weeds working a deal, they do not see all of the things that a sales leader might see when they are actually talking about a deal or a particular opportunity. When we go back to one of the roles of a sales leader, one of the things you are trying to do when you are in a one-on-one or you are in a deal review, is you prepare for it, where you assess what is going on.
The Delusional Founder: Transforming Your B2B Tech Business Through Sales Execution
You want to question or come up with some great questions for the salesperson so that they learn and they come to the understanding of what is going on. You align on a go-forward plan, and hopefully, it is a go-forward plan that they created, because if they created the plan, they are going to buy into it. Something like deals that never come to fruition, I think we would have to go back to just basic deal qualification. Some of the things we like to think about, I think we have got a tool called the Fintastic Five Deal Qualifiers, if you are in the academy or you go on to any of our models.
First of all, in that particular deal, are we solving a meaningful business problem for that client? Just thinking about that, asking how big this problem is? Where is it on the radar for the client? Why is this something that would get priority over the 50 other things they could be doing to improve their business? The second thing I would think about is, do we have a champion in there who says we absolutely need to do this? I want to make sure this comes to fruition, and a team champion for us has to be somebody who has at least a medium to high degree of influence.
Sometimes we all end up getting caught, Dave, working with somebody who is friendly to us and responsive to us and does all the right things and is happy to go for coffee, but they have no influence really on making the decision. The third thing I would start to think of is whether we have created a business case or return on investment collaboratively with that client in their language, in their terms, and in their financial modeling?
One of the things you have seen so many times, Dave, is that a tech company, particularly a SaaS company, will give you a business case and go, "You are going to get a 47 times ROI on this." The client or the client's boss does not believe it. Why? It is not believable. It worked for that one company, one time in their particular industry, in their particular circumstance. I would really start to think about whether we actually collaborated and worked together.
That is something, actually, when this is when we first started working together, we would experience that problem all the time. We would go in there, they would say, "This is a great product. We love it." It would go silent. What we did back then was instead of forcing this business case down their throat, we essentially came up with a template, and we would sit down with that client and say, "Let us build this out." Half the time we would ask them, or probably more than half the time, frankly, "What is the next step in the process?"
They would say, "We need to put a business case in and get it approved." We would ask the question, "Is that something you do often?" They say, "I have never done a business case in my entire career." We brought the template out and said, "Let us sit down, fill it out together." Basically, we were consultants helping them put their business case together, and then they would take it up the ladder, and they were the ones who actually created it. Of course, it was built on our template.
By the way, see what I love so much about that, no one knew you guys were so successful. You are collaborating. One of the things about that is if we calm down and stop trying to pitch and sell and just hope and go, "Let us work together to actually figure out whether this makes sense for your business." Obviously, we have sold this hundreds of times, but it is really important that it makes sense for you in your business right now. If we say, "Listen, let us collaborate on a business case, take a look at these things."
Let us also think about what your boss is actually going to want to see? I think you bring up such a great point. A lot of the time, when we are working with people, they are not making decisions and building business cases five times a quarter. This is rare sometimes. Sometimes, trying to help them think through what the senior executives are going to want to see? How are they going to look at it? What are their objections going to be?
If you collaborate, you can earn the right to take the consultative approach and also let your client know if this does not make sense for you, that is okay too. We will try to help you in some other way, but it is not just about trying to force something in. It is trying to make sure they make the right decision for themselves and their business. If they feel that from you, "You are just trying to work with me to do what is right. I can trust Dave." I think they will open the kimono, and we can roll up the sleeves and help them.
Mark, this is one thing that I learned many years ago. It is like, if you are in there having the conversations and you are digging in and they say, "We really like this product," but you, as a salesperson, actually do not think it is a good fit. You should tell them straight up, "Look, I do not think this is actually going to work well for your business."
I have seen many times before where you do that, and that person ends up leaving the company, going to another company, and they call you and say, "Remember in my old business, this wasn't a good fit. I actually think now I am in a position where this is a good fit." Let us talk, and you build a ton of trust by doing that. It is not just about closing them. What is going to happen is you are going to close that deal, and it is not going to work out. You get a bad reputation. The person's upset. They go to a new company, guess who they are not calling next?
Who would want to do that for a living? Can you imagine trying to wake up every day and go, "I am going to try and sell somebody something, whether they need it or not." People like you and me would not be able to last a week doing that. We get into our mindset, the job of selling is really management consulting and trying to help a client achieve a desired business outcome.
If we go to our market that way, as you say, we are going to have a pretty great long career, because if people can trust you, the whole world opens up, but your reputation is so delicate. The one or two times a young person gets coached to do the wrong thing, that reputation will follow them, and in the heyday of SAS, there were a lot of these right demos and forcing things in and all these good things.
The whole industry was growing, sales teams did okay, but they basically populated a whole industry of people who hated selling because they did not like forcing a square peg in a round hole. They were young people. They are very impressionable. By the way, based on the timing, there were technologies that enabled them to get everywhere. Email blasts and all of this. Just take it back to the base principles. Help somebody, help a company get a better future, and things will work out well for you.
Sales becomes a lot more fun when you are actually helping customers solve real problems and are actually making and creating happy clients.
Some other tactical things, just on qualification with the question before we may jump to another one, would be, it is a bit qualified when, "Do they have a process for thinking through this? Is there actually a decision point, or is it going to be one day?" Eventually, you want to get to this point. Are you aware of how they make the decision? Who is involved? What is the role of each person involved? What is most important to each person involved? If you are single-threaded into the business, meaning you are only selling to one person, and that person does not really have the degree of influence, you are going to get a lot of meetings, you are going to get a lot of hope, and then it is never going to come to fruition.
One of the things that I learned from you early on is that we would be in our sales meetings, and you would ask the question, "How does this company make these decisions and how does the process work?" You kind of, I would look at you and go, "I am not quite sure." I was like, "How do we figure that out?" You go, "You ask." One of the things that salespeople really feel awkward about asking at first is just saying, "Susie, how does this process work in your company to get a project like this from now to live?"
Frankly, 99% of the time, they will tell you. Maybe the other one percent they do not know, which is a different concern, but they will usually tell you, "From here, I go to put this together, talk to this person. We present to this panel, this board," and they will tell you straight up. That is something you need to learn, map out, and work that into your own sales process.
By the way, that should be the soundbite from this show that we put all over the internet because the truth of it, I think it is so great on so many fronts. When you ask them that question, you might get an answer from somebody you are not super intimate with yet. They will say, "We do this, we do this." Sometimes they will leave that meeting, and what they are going to do is, "That is a very good question. I do not know how we make a decision here."
One of the tactics I always like to look at, or throw out there, is just ask it this way and say, "Listen, the last time you had a major decision like this, what did you do? How did you make it? Who helped you? Did you make it on your own, or who helped you with a decision like that?" It all starts with where you led us, Dave. If we do not have trust and credibility in front of that buyer, they are not going to spend time, and that can really open up to us on any of these things. Great one. Should we pull another one?
Selling Up The Ladder And Engaging Senior Management
Yes, let us do it. Let us see what we have got. Next, we have a question from Cindy here. Cindy is actually, it looks like Cindy is a salesperson, sales rep. Cindy says, "I have got a big deal on the go right now with a big bank and my main contact." She puts in brackets here, "The champion, maybe champion, maybe not. Is not letting me get in front of her management team to communicate what we bring to the table. I do not think she is doing a great job of selling us up the ladder. How do I deal with this?"
By the way, thanks, Cindy. What a great question that we all face. Certainly, with some of the larger deals I did long ago in my history with big banks that were tens of millions, hundreds of millions, one was a billion. I did not meet the president of the bank, but for a deal that size, I went in front of the president of a US bank, and that was somebody I would never have met. Now, our president did, but more tactically on this one, a couple of thoughts to share. It is not uncommon that our buyer is going to have to sell up the chain, but we have to remember they are not in sales.
We really need to spend a lot of time trying to help them because a lot of the things you have let people tuning in this show have learned over the years about helping a client make a decision. A lot of those things it has been so long for you. You cannot even remember it. It is hard to coach somebody who is not new to doing this. One of the things I always like to think about is if they are not great at selling up the chain and they are not letting us get in front of them, I think the only third option we have is we have to coach them well on how to do it with patience, kindness, and empathy. What you are really trying to do is engage in a conversation that says, "Let us think about how that executive team is going to take a look at what you are recommending."
Yes, that is a good one.
That might come out saying, "Listen, how do they make decisions? Who is in that room? What is most important to them? Why, why, why?" One of the things that I found, working with some great people and still doing deals to this day, Dave, would be that sometimes I am working with someone who is just so passionate that the company needs sales training. It might be somebody in mid-level leadership, or somebody in HR, and say, "Oh, we need this." Might be somebody in the product, "We need this." Sometimes we get the CFO's attention that we absolutely need this.
When you start to think of the other people who are going to be around the table, they look at things differently. For example, we might work with someone in HR who says, what is going to happen when you bring this up the chain, and your CEO says, "Exactly what return on investment am I going to get for making this investment in the sales team? What is your answer?" Just collaborating with them.
Are you going to say, "We know this training pays for itself if we get a 40% year over year sales increase," or does the training actually pay for itself if you get, like, a three percent increase in sales year over year? The second thing is, the CEO asks our buyers a lot, "What is the real cost of the training?" They will say, "This is the fee from the funnel." The CEO will come back and say, "That is not the real cost." Mark's company wants to be in front of our sales team four times a year. That is four days out of the field.
We have to fly everybody in, and a couple of these objections to the right executive team will immediately derail the whole thing. Sometimes, the buyers you have, if they are going into that executive meeting, they are not in there every week. They do not know how this group makes decisions, but 2 or 3 objections will derail that conversation. You will never get back in front of the executive team. For us, Dave, one of the things I like to think about is how to set up a meeting where we say, "Let us just think about how that executive team is going to look at this and prepare." You almost become the sales manager for your buyer, with love. What do you suggest in this instance?
Yes. Mark, I will put a different spin on this one. I love what you said there, just about having to coach that champion to take a certain approach within the company. There is another thing again, I think this goes back to your training with us many years ago. We were always selling back then to big insurance companies. We would have a person who is a VP-level, and they had several levels above them. Part of the time, they would not put you in the room with those same people. As a seller, you know that the person above them, the chief underwriting officer or something, is a real decision maker. As the seller, you cannot pick up the phone and call that chief underwriting officer because then your contact is going to say, "What are you doing?”
“You are going around me."
What you can do is something, I think you called it, like rank selling. What you do is you have, if you are the salesperson, maybe you have your VP or your CEO reach out to that person who is the real decision maker, the boss of your champion, or the person you are working with to say, "I know Cindy, in this case, is working with Steve. I am in charge of this, that, and the other in the business. I just want to make myself available.
I'm really excited about this project. If you have any questions as you go through this process whatsoever, do not hesitate to reach out." By doing things that way, your contact with the buyer cannot fault you for saying, "What are you going around? That is my boss." They are making the call up the ladder to really help the relationship, make themselves available. I think that is a great technique if you are locked out in that situation, because you can get the conversation started. Frankly, that relationship might pay huge dividends in getting the deal done.
It is a great idea. Just, I know you guys would do this, just a minor build on that would be I will share it with my contact and say, "Listen, I had a conversation with our CEO, and because it is such an important opportunity, they wanted to make themselves available to your boss, Dave DaCosta." I just wanted to let you know that they are going to be reaching out. Sometimes I wasn't asking for permission, but I was pleasantly making them aware.
I do not control what my CEO does. They weren't asking my permission to reach out, but of course, when they did that, the CEO would take the opportunity to let the other president know that their team was doing a great job and that we were really impressed with the skill, putting the wind in the sails of our buyers. That is an option to consider for sure.
There are a lot of companies that do not do that, and it is a nice differentiator. Get the senior, senior people to reach out, tell the person, "This is a really important project for us."
I loved your verbiage there, Dave. Your CEO says, "What am I supposed to say when I reach out?" You have got to coach the CEO on what to do. Just say, "Listen, out of consideration, I wanted to reach out and make myself available to you. I am sure this is a really important decision for you. You are a really important client for us. I wanted to make sure that I am available in the event you have any questions whatsoever about what is taking place."
By the way, delighted to connect anytime to share a few insights about what we are seeing in the industry. That peer-to-peer, by the way, at that level, of course, everybody loves networking. They love expanding their base, and they want to make sure. It is just such a smart thing to do. Any other thoughts on that one, by the way?
No, I think that should hopefully help Cindy get that big deal across the finish line there.
The Importance Of Collaborative Deal Reviews And Whiteboarding
By the way, team, one thing to call out, this is why I always love chatting with you, Dave, is that I am such a huge believer in the power of collaboration. As you are facing these challenges, please do not be afraid to go to your sales manager or your sales team. Put a few people in a room. It does not have to be an hour-long meeting, twenty minutes.
I can say, "Listen, if you have got a template for talking through the deal, we love our strategy builder that you can get from the Academy. If you do not, just have some way of briefly updating the team on where you are in the deal, whiteboard ideas of things I could do right now to improve my strategic positioning. What are the things we could do?" Always the idea of a whiteboard, it is almost like being in a comedy writer's room. There is no bad idea.
You can always put the ideas on the whiteboard, you can always take them off later, edit later, but get some ideas because riffing back and forth here, just you come up with an idea, and I had five percent, you had five percent. That is why it was so fun working with you guys back in the day, because there were such smart guys, folks in that company. We're also in a safe place because there was a lot of laughter in the room. People's brains work better when they feel safe. If they're in a room where I am trying to collaborate with the CEO, who is a real hard ass, and I get panic in my heart, I cannot think.
Mark, this is a, this is kind of a tool that is not really used. I think a lot of the time, by sales managers and sales leaders, is whether this is a big deal or a stuck deal review. It is great for a sales leader because, honestly, you do not have to do much. You get your sales team in the room. You say, "Who has got a deal that is stuck or a deal that is a problem right now?" Basically, they give the synopsis. As the sales leader, you look around and say, "Joe, what do you think? Susie, what do you think?" Just go around and get people's ideas and feedback. You are just facilitating the conversation, and what happens a lot of times is someone, "I had that problem last week. Here is what I did." Great idea. I never thought of that.
As a sales leader, look around the room and ask, “Joe, what do you think? Susie, what do you think?” Invite ideas, gather feedback, and make collaboration the norm.
Good Dave. For sales leaders out there who are always under enormous stress, you do not have to be the smartest person in the room. The hope is you are not. The hope is that you are developing a team of people who are smarter and more capable. By the way, not blowing wind in any sales, Dave, you and your buddy, Dave DeCosta, were those people back in the day with me, even, because we would get in a room and we would talk about a concept or an idea. A week later, we would have another sales meeting, and you guys would come back and show what you have done. In my mind, I was going, "You guys executed this thing way better than I would have." That is what you hope. As a sales leader, take the pressure off of you do not need to be the smartest person.
You do not have to have all the answers.
Your job is to really unleash the potential of the team and develop the people who are going to be the smartest people in the room and one day take your job. That is the joy of doing it. Do we have time for another day?
Addressing Disruptive High-Performing Salespeople
Yes, we have got one more here, Mark, maybe that we can address. This one could be based on my skimming of this question. It could be a more succinct answer here, knowing you. Number three here is from Rachel. Rachel is actually a sales leader. She says, "I lead a team of nine sellers, and one of them has amazing numbers and basically always beats quota. He has been with the company for about ten years. The issue is that he does not follow our protocols or processes. I feel like he undermines me sometimes in sales meetings. Honestly, it is a bit disruptive to the team. I have had several discussions with him, but he keeps insisting that he just does things his own way. What do I do?"
Rachel, I hope you're using a pseudonym, Rachel, for people tuning in. Dave, I will get your opinion on this one, too, but this is probably the hardest thing that I have had to learn in the early years of being a sales leader. Because you look at that person, that person might have good relationships with the rest of my organization. They have been around for ten years. You might have senior executives who like them. They bring in numbers, so everybody is going to like them. The truth of it is, you cannot have somebody who is disruptive on your sales team. You cannot.
Rachel talked about protocols. I almost position it as a value as a leader. I am bringing a set of values and a sales culture, hopefully to the table, and that we want the team to align on. The truth is, you have to do that. You have to get on side because you just cannot have a disruptive player on the team. Even if they're producing, the rest of the people wonder why they do not, why this person does not get held to the same standards, same protocols, same values, and same behaviors. Over time, it is not going to work out.
A lot of times, there is a little bit of imposter syndrome, I think, on new sales leaders. If you have got this person diminishing your authority, it is not good for you either. If it is not good for you, it takes you out of being your best self, so you cannot lead, help, and coach the rest of the team. The truth of it is, you have said you have had this conversation with a person a couple of times, you have to have that courageous conversation and say, "Listen, we have minimum expectations to be on the team. We have to do this."
That person is going to self-select and either do it. You then have to decide if they do not do it, you are going to need to replace them. They have to go. Now, the timing is something you need to think about. Given the pressures on the quarter and the year, what is the timing, and how do you address it with the customers they work with, and how do you get in front of some of those customers? We cannot have a disruptive person on the team. It is no different than any sports team. They do not just go after the most talented people. There are a lot of players in a league who are very talented, but nobody wants them on the team.
Even if that person is beating their quotas every quarter, you have to wonder what the negative impact of that person is on. It looks like Rachel has nine people on the team. What is the negative impact on the other eight people on the team? If you get rid of that disruptive person, potentially everybody else in the team is going to elevate. What I also see a lot of times is when you finally do.
The biggest mistake I have made throughout my career is, and I heard this phrase a while ago. “The time you should let somebody go is the first time you think about doing it. You have always waited too long to pull the cord, so to speak, thinking, “It will change, maybe it will change.” Unfortunately, they often do not. Once you actually do that, the rest of the team is like, "I never thought that was going to happen. It is about time." They are relieved, and immediately everybody gets a better morale and starts performing better. That is something that is kind of underappreciated.
The right time to let someone go is usually the first time you seriously consider it.
A cloud lifts. One of the things I always like to share, particularly for sales leaders, is to protect your confidence. That same thing we talked about a little while ago. You think best when you are in a good place. When you are in fight or flight, or feel like you are at risk or there is some danger, your brain spends most of the time in that zone. By the way, you cannot really think well.
This is why when you are having an emotional argument with somebody, you leave the argument, it is over, you are driving home, and you go, "I should have said this, this, and this." You cannot think well when you are in the middle of something emotional, or you are not in your best self. The truth of it is, I think for sales leaders today, the job is tough enough. I need a team that is aligned and on side. I need to make the expectations very clear.
I have to set expectations and coach people, and then have those courageous conversations to guide. Everybody needs feedback. If somebody wants to declare, "Dave, I am not too keen on your program. I am just going to be over here doing my own thing. By the way, I know what I am doing. I am getting my numbers. Do not worry about me," but I am to be disruptive behind your back. I am going to chip away at your authority. Whether you want it to be the case or not, tenured people in a sales organization influence new people. Because the new people go, "They must be good at what they do because they have been here ten years."
They are hitting their numbers. They have been here a long time, so I am to start doing things the way they are doing it. All of a sudden, you show up at the office one day, and you are looking around, going, "Why is everybody a total jerk in here, and why doesn't everybody like me?"
That is right. Making sure you are clear on what your expectations are, but the team has got to be your team. You have got to run the sales culture your way, and people have to be aligned with that. That is a really important thing in terms of being fit. By the way, both of us, I am sure, we will qualify. These decisions are never fun, gang.
No, the worst part of the job, by far, is losing a customer. It is never easy. I know it is easy for us to say, "Get rid of the person," but it is the most difficult thing, being a leader, being an entrepreneur, having a team, and having to make a decision like that, that does affect somebody, their personal life, and that type of thing. It is not easy.
It is not easy at all. The reason Dave and I are so crisp on it is that we have lived this multiple times. Too many times. We know the end game ends up being the same one way or the other.
Mark, that is all we got in the mailbag. We are running out of time here, but this was super fun. Hopefully, the listeners learned a few things, and I know I did.
Me too.
Like having these conversations. A couple of things you talked about were like, "That is right." I remember Mark telling me that ten years ago, and I have not thought about it. It is a good refresher, too.
Closing Thoughts And The Mission To Elevate Professional Sales
Me too, Dave. Just talking about it gets the thought process going again. At any given time, we are working with four or five different large sales organizations. We are training thousands of salespeople these days. These are the things that come up frequently in our workshops, whether they are for leaders or for salespeople. These are the issues we are all battling with. Leadership is tough. Selling is tough, and it is not getting any easier. By the way, Dave, what a great idea to do these office hours. Thank you so much for coming up with the idea.
It was fun, Mark. We will look forward to doing another one soon.
Thank you, Dave. It is always great to see you. We will see you next time. Folks, thanks for joining. As we mentioned at the top, the reason we run our company, the reason we exist, we are trying to improve the lives of professional salespeople. We do that through coaching, teaching, and elevating professional sales into the profession it deserves to be. We love your feedback. Thanks for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, please like and subscribe to our show because that is how we get great guests.
That is how we keep doing this. If you have some ideas for us or questions that you would like us to take on in the next ITF office hours, you can send them to me, MarkCox@InTheFunnel.com. I respond to every piece of constructive criticism we get. That is my personal email, by the way. If you send a question, we will also say thank you, and we will put it in the mailbag for next time. In the meantime, team, good luck to everybody over the next couple of weeks. Thanks for tuning in. We will see you next time.